However there is a very interesting study that took place in Leipzig about 15 years ago. Jochen Gartz, a mushroom explorer whom I know quite well, has done some fascinating studies with Psilocybe species by raising them on solid media containing strange tryptamines that are alien to the mushroom. Apparently the enzymes that are responsible for the 4-hydroxy group of psilocin are indifferent to what it is they choose to 4-hydroxylate. He has taken things like DPT or DIPT and put them in the growth media and the fruiting bodies that came out contain 4-hydroxy-DPT or 4-hydroxy-DIPT instead of psilocin. In fact, he has a patent on the process. These active compounds are made by the mushroom so they really are natural and yet they never have been observed in nature. I'll give you even odds that if you put spores of a psilocybe species on cow droppings loaded with 5-MeO-DMT you would come out with mushrooms containing 4,5-HO-MeO-DMT. This way you avoid a 10 step synthesis by growing a psychoactive mushroom that contains no illegal drug.

(...) contain 4-hydroxy-DPT or 4-hydroxy-DIPT instead of psilocin. (...)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query...p;dopt=Abstract:

J. Basic Microbiol. 1989;29(6):347-52.
Biotransformation of tryptamine derivatives in mycelial cultures of Psilocybe.
Gartz J.
Institut fur Biotechnologie der AdW, Leipzig.

Mycelial cultures of Psilocybe cubensis capable of forming psilocybin and psilocin de novo display a high capacity for hydroxylation of tryptamine derivatives at the 4-position. A specific biotransformation of added synthetic N,N-diethyl-tryptamine was found. Thus high amounts of 4-hydroxy-N,N-diethyltryptamine (up to 3.3%) and a minor quantity of 4-phosphoryloxy-N,N-diethyltryptamine (0.01-0.8%) were isolated from fruiting bodies of Psilocybe cubensis in corresponding experiments. This is the first example of a directed biosynthesis of tryptamine substances by fungi. An effective biotransformation of N-methyltryptamine was also demonstrated with surface cultures of Psilocybe semilanceata. Baeocystin, a possible natural precursor of psilocybin, was detected and quantified in the biomasses. No alkaloids could be found in the culture medium.


Now, what does it mean if there is no alkaloids found in the culture medium, if alkaloids were added there in the first place considering that high amounts of 4-OH-DET were produced? :wink: According to the paper the culture Gartz used was a cow dung/rice grain (2:1) mixture with dry weight of 13.5 g suspended into double amount of 0.25 mM solution of N,N-diethylamine hydrochloride, which means that there was about 1.7 grams of DET.HCl dissolved in 27 mL of water. The percentages of alkaloids per dry weight isolated from five consecutive flushes were: 1. 2.5 % 4-OH-DET, 0 % 4-phosphoryloxy-DET; 2. 0.2 %, 0.8 %; 3. 3.1 %, 0.01 %; 4. 3.3 %, 0 %; 5. 2.1 %, 0.02 %. Also, another abstract on the subject:

Planta Medica, vol. 55, p. 249-250 (1989)
Biotransformation of Tryptamine in Fruiting Mycelia of Psilocybe cubensis
Jochen Gartz

Mycelial cultures of Psilocybe cubensis, with the ability to form psilocybin and psilocin de-novo, also hydroxylated and methylated fed tryptamine to give psilocin in up to 3.3 % dry mass of the obtained fruit bodies. By using HPLC and TLC, it was found that these mushrooms contain only a small amount of psilocybin (0.01-0.2 % dry mass). The values of psilocin are the highest described in any mushrooms.


The following patents (http://www.espacenet.com) by mr. Gartz are also interesting and related on the subject, even though they are in german. Other patents by Herr Gartz might be worth checking out too.
DD265636, DD273449, DD287053

Also, the following reference is interesting indeed, although it is apparent the information it contains cannot be applied directly to mycelial cultures. If it was, the poor uptake and incorporation of DMT might be considered contradictory to the results Gartz obtained, as DMT and DET are chemically quite close to each other: Biosynthesis of Psilocybin Part II. Incorporation of Labeled Tryptamine Derivatives; Agurell, S. and Eilsson, L.; Acta Chemica Scandinavica, vol. 22, p. 1210 (1968):
 https:// www.rhodium.ws/pdf/psilocybin.biosynthesis-2.pdf


Now mister theshiftingwalls, after giving supporting arguments on certain conjectures you made, there are a few things I must say: claiming that all of the DPT added to the substrate would be converted to 4-OH-DPT is, even still, a claim without proof as there are no measurements to back it up. You also seem to be sure of a lot of things you have no proof of. Yet, it is obvious you aren't an expert nor have you studied the subject thoroughly. Did you know that 4-OH-DPT is quite as hard to synthesize in the lab as psilocin? Every magic mushroom grower is making psychedelics that are hard to synthesize.

Allerdings, denke ich, dass das keine praktische Bedeutung haben wird, ist eher als Experiment interessant, IMHO.

war auch nur als solches gedacht :)

right! ;)

thx an euch, mach ich doch gern, is ja, as said, hoch interessant.
- ein pilz der stoffe, die ins medium eingearbeitet werden, aufnimmt und umwandelt und das in ner hochkomplexen synthese! einfach unglaublich, klingt schon fast nach SCIFI^^
however, ich halt mich ran, sobald mir ergebnisse vorliegen seid ihr die ersten die davon hören werden ;)

kg

Viel intressanter wäre eine gentechnische veränderung des pilzes ..
Gibt auch genug mikroorganismen die andere wunderbare enzyme bereitstellen =)

in biochemie und ethnobotanik ein Dr., das streb ich an ;)